Wednesday, September 15, 2010

The “baptist” Lie

The “baptist” Lie, I don’t want anyone to be confused by this, you can be a baptist without being a Baptist. A Baptist is just one who is honest about holding to this lie, many many others in nondenominational movements and so on don’t like to be called Baptists, yet they still are baptists. That is, they hold to The “baptist” Lie. The “baptist” lie is also known as Baptist Theology, or more specifically the Baptist Doctrine of Baptism.
This lie is unscriptural in its premises, and satanic in its denial of grace, especially where the “little ones” Jesus was so fond of are concerned. I hate Baptist theology because Jesus loves babies, and so do I. baptist theology is based on the opinions of men, and not of Christ, and ultimately undermines the doctrine of Salvation by grace through faith as a gift of God, the Gospel that Paul explicates in Ephesians 2:8-9, and the one gospel he admonishes the Galatians to hold firm to, warning them to let anyone be accursed who teaches any other Gospel in the first chapter of his letter to them. Yet finally in the end it is an illogical, untenable, and unintelligible position. To hold to this doctrine one needs to throw logic to the wind, and ignore scripture.
baptists would have you believe that they believe in justification by faith alone, perhaps even justification by grace through faith alone. Yet they deny this in the case of infants, because they believe infants can’t believe. (Do I need a citation for that?) So infants are saved on account of something else altogether, what that is varies from baptist to baptist, but usually it is something along the lines of their own innocence or righteousness. Evidently babies don’t need Christ, they are in and of themselves righteous in baptist theology, and therefore they don’t need to believe in the one true God. Of course, if they don’t believe in God or trust in Jesus then they are guilty of breaking the first commandment, and therefore are not doing so well in that bit on being righteous in and of themselves. But we tend to forget that first commandment, it requires faith. Normally, though whether they believe the babies are sinners or not, they hold out for an “age of accountability” nowhere found in scripture, at which point the child is “able” to believe, and even repent of their sins, at which point they must be baptized. We will take these three topics in sequence: whether infants can believe, “the age of accountability”, and the need for repentance, analyzing these propositions according to scripture.
The Faith of Infants:
Over and over again it is posited that infants cannot believe. We have dealt a bit with the logic of this statement already, it would seem to bar heaven from infants, or make faith alone a joke. But there are a couple other problems with this statement. It ignores the clear words of Christ and the testimony of scripture. It also ignores the fact that faith is a gift of God impossible for anyone to attain without the work of the Holy Spirit. In fact, scripture seems to hint that it is easier for children to believe than adults.
The Clear Words of Christ:
“But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6 (ESV)
"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. “ (Mark 9:42 (ESV)
To spell it out, twice Jesus referring to infants “little ones” being held in his arms and the arms of mothers, states that they believe in him, “THES LITTLE ONES WHO BELIEVE IN ME.”
And again in the 21st chapter of Matthew Jesus quotes scripture indicating that infants and even nursing babes believe in Him. “But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying out in the temple, "Hosanna to the Son of David!" they were indignant, [16] and they said to him, "Do you hear what these are saying?" And Jesus said to them, "Yes; have you never read," 'Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babies you have prepared praise'?" (Matthew 21:15-16 (ESV)
The infants and nursing babies are praising Jesus, that is they are confessing faith, one does not praise God if one does not also believe in Him.
And again : “ And they were bringing children to him that he might touch them, and the disciples rebuked them. [14] But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, "Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. [15] Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it." [16] And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them.” (Mark 10:13-16 (ESV)
Here Jesus says these Children have the kingdom of God, and it is we adults who are supposed to receive this kingdom like little children. In short to have the kingdom of God is to have that internal reign of Jesus in your heart, the peace of God that surpasses all understanding, also known as faith. It isn’t children, here so young Jesus takes them up in his arms, that have trouble believing but adults that have trouble believing.
Other verses to consider when thinking about infants and their capacity to believe and be baptized would be Matthew 28:18-19, Acts 2:38-39 (especially that “for your children bit”) and 2 timothy 3:15, the Greek word “Brephous” is most accurately translated infancy.
Conclusion regarding the faith of Infants
In short scripture testifies that children can indeed believe. This necessarily makes us consider what it means to believe or have faith. Faith and belief have to be gifts of God that should not be confused with our ability to think, understand or give intellectual assent, even if faith at times makes use of those abilities. Faith is perhaps the deepest mystery of scripture, intertwined with the mystery of the Gospel itself. It cannot be so narrowly defined as to exclude anyone from the possibility of receiving it whether child, or adult, genius or mentally handicapped.
The Age of Accountability
There just simply is no age of accountability in scripture given for after which a child must be baptize but before which baptism is unnecessary. This is made up nonsense. Perhaps though, if one wanted to push the relationship of Circumcision and Baptism as explained in the second chapter of Colossians, you could make a case for baptizing when the child is 8 days old, that is if you wanted to be legalistic about the grace of God.
“In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, [12] having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. [13] And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, [14] by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.” (Col. 2:11-14 (ESV)
In any case Baptists would shudder to think a child should be baptized at that tender age, whatever the age of accountability is, it is not that! It’s hard to argue, the bible doesn’t talk about an age of accountability. God’s law does though hold us accountable for sin, and scripture holds out death as the ultimate judgment of that sin for which we are accountable.
Testimony of scripture concerning death as judgment for sin, and the means by which men are held accountable for sin:
Death was the judgment for the sin of eating from the tree of Good and Evil:
The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it. [16] And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, [17] but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." (Genesis 2:15-17 (ESV)
Whoever ate of that tree would be held accountable for their sin by dying. Death would be the judgment for sin.
This is reiterated throughout scripture:
“ Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?” (Ezekiel 33:11 (ESV)
“Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—“ (Romans 5:12 (ESV)
“Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.” (Romans 5:14 (ESV)
“ Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? “(Romans 6:16 (ESV)
“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:23 (ESV)
Romans 7:13 (ESV)
Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure.
Conclusion concerning the “Age of Accountability”
Perhaps that is enough on the Scriptural connection between sin and death. When a person dies they are being held accountable for sin. It is actually quite that simple. It would seem then that one might believe the “age of accountability” is any age after which it is reasonable to believe a person is susceptible to dying. Nurses go through great trouble making sure children don’t die in the hospital right after birth.
The Requirement of Repentance,
Now here is a Biblical requirement for salvation to be sure. But the baptist meaning of repentance is not quite the same as that of the Bible. The baptist would again have you believe that the repentance that is required here is within your own ability to do. They would have you believe that it is something akin to feeling sorry for your sin, and particular ones at that, and a turning away from them. The Biblical witness of repentance is nothing but the flipside of faith, it is impossible to have true repentance without believing the gospel. Why? Because our first sin corresponds to the First Commandment, not believing in God, not having faith in Jesus, to repent is to believe, to believe is to repent. So it is that repentance too is a gift from God. He grants it.
Scriptural Testimony
“And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 2:38 (ESV)

If one is to follow the gist of this verse, it would be impossible for someone on that day to have repented without being baptized. Denying baptism is denying repentance. So it is with faith, faith gets baptized, faith wants to be baptized, and those who stand in the way of those who believe and do not allow them to be baptized, deny the grace of God, and the gift of repentance to that person.
“When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, "Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18 (ESV)
Notice God is granting, that is giving repentance that leads to life. This is different than feeling sorry for stealing a cookie or a car. This is a turning away from one’s own efforts to rely solely upon the grace of God for their salvation. In other words this is a repentance that only comes with the mystery of faith.
“Correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,” (2 Tim. 2:25 (ESV)
Again, it is up to God to grant repentance, not to the person who needs salvation.
“and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." (Mark 1:15 (ESV)
Repent and believe the Gospel, the two go hand in hand. One cannot repent without believing the gospel, one cannot believe the gospel without also repenting. And what is this repenting, it is to believe in God to believe the good news that he has sent, the time is fulfilled the kingdom of God is at hand.
Conclusion on Repentance
Repentance gets a bit slippery because we normally use it in a way that is different and yet not quite inconsistent with scripture. There is in scripture testimony of people repenting for specific sins. This is often how we use the term. Specific sins meaning sins that we know we have committed and wish not to commit again, a turning away from sins such as stealing, adultery, false witness, the laundry list can go on. Most of us adults have a long laundry list of our own sins for which we are on some level repentant for.
However, if this was the definition for the kind of repentance required for salvation we would have a huge conundrum, it would mean that God actually requires us to sin before we can be saved. Now I have gotten that impression from listening to not a few “testimonies” growing up. At one time I thought it might actually be impossible for someone to be saved without first being a womanizer, a drunk, a drug addict, murderer, and thief. And thank God that he brings such people to repentance! But God hardly requires us to be guilty of actually committing these sins in the flesh before he grants us his grace and salvation. God would rather us not make such a blatant mess of our lives, even if he is willing to forgive it and clean it up. But if this is the kind of repentance he is looking for then it would indeed require us to sin in thought word and deed before we could be saved, otherwise we would have nothing to repent of.
The truth is all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God, that is all, babies and infants included. We don’t need to look for particular sins to be repentant of before we can be saved and baptized. We have plenty more than we will ever be aware of in all honesty.
The second problem with requiring such repentance for salvation is that it is easily confused with the repentance of unbelievers. Being sorry for doing bad things is not the monopoly of Christians. Today you have all sorts of Karma peddlers. Atheists are known to feel bad for certain transgressions. Show me someone who has never felt guilt, I’ll show you a sociopath. But feeling sorry for your sins hardly makes up for them. If the forgiveness of Christ were dependent upon this sort of guilt, or repentance, it would be dependent upon something we do and not the grace of God.
The danger here is one would always be wondering if their repentance was true enough, if they really meant it. It makes faith and repentance our works that merit the grace of God. This cannot stand. This robs God’s people, faithful parents, and children of the comfort God meant the Gospel to be. In the end it ultimately denies the grace of God to those whom He showed such love for during his earthly ministry.
God attaches such comfort and promise to baptism that it can rightly be said he conveys grace through it. As Lutherans say it is a means of grace. To be sure it is “a” means not the only means. God is so abundant with his grace that he showers it down on us in manifold ways through his word and sacraments. We receive grace by hearing his word, by being baptized, by eating and drinking his body and blood for the forgiveness of sins in with and under the bread and wine of the Lord’s supper. Yet though God can convey his grace through other means, to stand in the way of this means, baptism, is still to deny the grace of God to His beloved Children, not to mention to disobey his command.
On a very serious level it is to teach them to despise his grace which he wills to offer in baptism, and therefore to despise his words, despair of his grace, and trust in one’s own emotions and abilities. It is to teach them to sin, and it would be better that a millstone be tied around one’s neck and they be thrown into the sea than to teach one of these little ones who believe in him to sin, to despise his word, his grace, his gospel. Better to hold to the promise of God and realize that the forgiveness of sins he offers you, and the gift of the Holy Spirit, that is faith and salvation he extends to you in baptism, he also promises is not only for you but for your children also.
“And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [39] For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself." (Acts 2:38-39 (ESV)

14 comments:

Magotty Man said...

Now I wonder what propmted you to write this.. :)

thank you for this. That debate at geneveith ended so frustratingly! In my mind, though, it was a very apt demonstration of what happens when grace is left out of the equation. Said individual did not read my posts - if she did, she would have seen that I was there where she was, as well.

Yet, we should pray for her. A seed now might take years to start growin, but with God all things are possible.

-Louis

Bror Erickson said...

My guess Scylding is that the debate is probably not over. But as I have said elsewhere, I would have been flabergasted had Grace moved her position. She came int the debate cocksure over herself and emotionally invested, incapable of changing views, she is incapable of self-criticism. However, there are plenty of other people that look in on those debates, and either change their minds, or the minds of others they are talking to.

Magotty Man said...

True. And I think "emotionally invested" is very accurate.

Bror Erickson said...

By the way, I also posted this to Scribd so that it can be down loaded and passed around at will, or tossed around on facebook, or whatever. I generally think Lutherans just need this kind of stuff to be easily accessible to them, because the evangelicals are always trying to debate with us concerning this and accusing us of not believing the Bible.
Louis, you can get my essay, Luther, James, Canon and the Authority of Scripture there too.

Bror Erickson said...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/37505578/The-baptist-Lie#source:facebook

Steve said...

The war against the gospel continues by many who profess Christ.

It's always Christ (+) for them.

It's really a shame.

Larry said...

I just read recently along this lines when Luther is describing that the fundamental under pinning of the Anabaptist (the baptist of Luther’s day), they actually are saying that reason, who Luther calls the enemy of faith (in its magisterial position over Scripture) makes the way for faith. How then is it that reason, the enemy of faith, helps faith is Luther’s fundamental point. Which exactly Christ’s point. Luther points out that Jesus condemns reason every where and lauds faith, the gift of God. The we, adults, should be like children or we shall never see the kingdom of God is not that children are innocent but the VERY FACT that there reason is less developed and thus less wars with faith. In the end Luther says one must stand, reason or faith, both cannot. Thus, Luther points out that children make MORE better candidates for the grace of God BECAUSE the lack of reason will not reject it and war with faith itself.

I dare say my very young children, you should here them talk, more easily rest in Christ than I do. Just the other day my daughters speak (now 5 and 6) where speaking of heaven, we just read a bunch of descriptions of it in the NT and in particular the end of Revelation, just as if they were describing the EXISTING blue sky, sun, moon and stars and back yard of our house and drawing their pictures of it. I don’t break down much but was fighting the tears saying to my wife, “Do you SEE/HEAR that faith, I wish I had one billionth of that faith…its so real to them and they don’t SEE it (reasons way) they HEAR it in the Words and Promises of God…that is REAL faith.” And they’ve been talking like this from day one they became intelligible to understand. I told my wife, “I LAMENT their growing wise in reason, it will grow like a cancer in them and WAR mightily with their faith, especially with utterly satanic doctrine of the Baptist church.”

No one will convince me that a SINGLE adult of any age of any learning has one trillionth the faith of a baptized infant! Not one. In fact Luther makes this very point that the more wise a man is and well developed is his reasoning powers, the MORE he needs the Word to make war against this unbelief. The reason Calvin was blind and preached heresy was that his greatest gift, his faculty for rational thought, over threw his faith more.

This is why Luther said in his HD and other places that a man must become thoroughly foolish in Christ before taking up Aristotle, else to the danger of his soul. He was not being hyperbolic.

Anonymous said...

Just surfing and glad to have read this. You left out a few references that give me pause to give thanks for God's marvelous ways. There is the fact that John the Baptist lept in his mother's womb for joy. Now how did that happen, if not by faith? :)

Then there are verses like Psalm 22:9-10, Psalm 58:3, Psalm 71:5-6, Isaiah 48:8, the fact that children like Isaac were foretold, etc., etc.

Thank you for this post.

Bror Erickson said...

Thanks 96Isaiah,
Beleive me I left out a lot of references, and my selection might not have been all that systematic. But I just wanted to highlight some of the more obvious verses that contradict what baptists are saying.

Scottydog said...

If God were to give us a means by where we could know for certain that our children were saved even before they reached this mystical "age of acountability" wouldn't we parents take advantage of it? Wouldn't we feel stupid if it was obvious but we failed to take advantage of it?

"And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?" 2 Kings 5:13

This question was why I stopped being Baptist.

Bror Erickson said...

Scotty Dog,
Right On! I think I actually meant to work that narrative into this paper, did I forget? Probably did.
In anycase you are right, the baptists are just sitting there as angry as Namaan, demanding that God save their children some other way, than the way he has given them.

Larry said...

SD,

"And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?" 2 Kings 5:13


That is a great passage I'd never considered before. It does speak to the problem of faith IN the Word to the offense of reason, versus reason assuming it can "get behind" the Word and say, "well this is what it means".

Larry said...

I was just discussing this with our pastor coming from the POV of having been baptist, in baptist, deep baptist territory, not to mention ALL of our family on both sides are baptist and half of the side multiple in the ministry; that our greatest worry for our children is not atheism or such but that some day in the future by family or other someone will cast doubt on their baptism – which is RICH to them of God’s grace and they believe. He, having been a Lutheran pastor here for thirty years said, we run into that a lot with our youth, who have been catechized and then somewhere in school, usually jr. high, high school or college a baptist or group of them say they were not baptized due mode or when (infant) and they come back to us and say, “now help me understand again how I was baptized”.

I say that to echo the alarm Bror is speaking of, it’s not, at the end of the day a small thing. It is persecution of the Word, a promise one treasures ESPECIALLY in times of doubt.

I don’t know how it affects life long Lutherans, but I do know how it affects people like myself who came from and are now in Lutheran confession. As much as I am able to defend, and ardently, baptism per the L. Conf. and as it is so much a treasured Gospel DEEPLY to my soul and very being, especially in time of trial, I STILL every single day, due to family, due otherwise good teachers in and among the baptist and reformed (not the clowns like Warren), the temptation is there DAILY even HOURLY of, “hath God really said”, “are you sure YOU Larry have not gone off the wrong end with Luther/Lutherans…these others are so good and nice and well learned exegetical folks….” THAT temptation is a very great trial, and I’m not exaggerating. The reason I publically fire back very hard, with teeth, when I debate is that very reason. I know there are others out there shaking in deep trial, deep doubt, “is this really so”, that if I waiver I may cause them to doubt more. It’s like Luther said we should very firmly both confess the truth and condemn the lies, for the sake of building up the faith of the brothers/sisters and weak (which is me a lot of times internally). It’s not that men’s strength is strength, but like Paul, “build up each others faith mutually, yours with mine, mine with yours.” (paraphrased from Romans 1).

Thus, when I hear another strong Lutheran, even if he/she is secretly battling this inwardly themselves, “is it true”, under that internal trial/temptation, the very fact they strongly confess the faith and two, no less than one, condemn false teachings AS such with that kind of real demarcation language, it strengthens my own faith against my temptations and trials.

Larry

Larry said...

I was just discussing this with our pastor coming from the POV of having been baptist, in baptist, deep baptist territory, not to mention ALL of our family on both sides are baptist and half of the side multiple in the ministry; that our greatest worry for our children is not atheism or such but that some day in the future by family or other someone will cast doubt on their baptism – which is RICH to them of God’s grace and they believe. He, having been a Lutheran pastor here for thirty years said, we run into that a lot with our youth, who have been catechized and then somewhere in school, usually jr. high, high school or college a baptist or group of them say they were not baptized due mode or when (infant) and they come back to us and say, “now help me understand again how I was baptized”.

I say that to echo the alarm Bror is speaking of, it’s not, at the end of the day a small thing. It is persecution of the Word, a promise one treasures ESPECIALLY in times of doubt.

I don’t know how it affects life long Lutherans, but I do know how it affects people like myself who came from and are now in Lutheran confession. As much as I am able to defend, and ardently, baptism per the L. Conf. and as it is so much a treasured Gospel DEEPLY to my soul and very being, especially in time of trial, I STILL every single day, due to family, due otherwise good teachers in and among the baptist and reformed (not the clowns like Warren), the temptation is there DAILY even HOURLY of, “hath God really said”, “are you sure YOU Larry have not gone off the wrong end with Luther/Lutherans…these others are so good and nice and well learned exegetical folks….” THAT temptation is a very great trial, and I’m not exaggerating. The reason I publically fire back very hard, with teeth, when I debate is that very reason. I know there are others out there shaking in deep trial, deep doubt, “is this really so”, that if I waiver I may cause them to doubt more. It’s like Luther said we should very firmly both confess the truth and condemn the lies, for the sake of building up the faith of the brothers/sisters and weak (which is me a lot of times internally). It’s not that men’s strength is strength, but like Paul, “build up each others faith mutually, yours with mine, mine with yours.” (paraphrased from Romans 1).

Thus, when I hear another strong Lutheran, even if he/she is secretly battling this inwardly themselves, “is it true”, under that internal trial/temptation, the very fact they strongly confess the faith and two, no less than one, condemn false teachings AS such with that kind of real demarcation language, it strengthens my own faith against my temptations and trials.

Larry